- Rise of the Mandalorians is nearing total completion! Let that sink in. Literally years of work, stress, joy, and patience are coming to a close. It's been a long journey. So long sometimes that some fans and followers have fallen away. However, the vast majority have stayed and in fact the mod has only grown in all that time.
- Mar 27, 2015 The mandalorians are one of my personal favourites in the star wars universe, but lest learn more about how there culture cam to be.
'the Mandalorians fractured, giving rise to a chaotic splinter group. They called themselves the 'Death Watch' and followed a barbarian called Vizsla, who believed that the Mandalorians should conquer the galaxy.
MandaloriansPolitical informationType of governmentMercenary ArmyFounding documentUnknownHead of StateHead of GovernmentMandaloreCommander-in-chiefSocietal informationCapitalUnknownOfficial languageVariousState religious bodyHistorical informationDate of establishmentDate of reorganizationDate of fragmentationEra(s). Rise of the Empire era.
Rebellion era. New Republic era' Mandalorians don't make threats. We make promises.' —The Mandalorians (called Mando'ade in, meaning 'Sons and Daughters of Mandalore') were a group of clan-based people consisting of members from multiple species. Their culture revolved around that of the idea of battle and war being a source of honour and pride in their community.
The leader of the Mandalorians typically took on the title of '.' Mandalorians were frequently allied with the, most notably and much later as a prototype for the under the power of and the.Originally, the were a gray-skinned warrior race descended from the of. Later, members of other species joined their ranks, until humans made up the majority. In later years, races as diverse as, and also joined the Mandalorians. Mandalorians spoke their own language, but many spoke as well.Mandalorian Warriors wore very distinctive battle helmets with T-shaped visors that covered the entirety of their faces.
These helmets were became associated with the Mandalorian people.
I recently posted a topic in the GM section asking for advice on running the mandalorians that could combine the old canon and the new and surprisingly I received some rather negative reactions. This was surprising to me as this is th first time I’ve participated in the greater fandom and I had no idea that there were such visceral reactions and opinions on the subject. I had to shut down the conversation in my GM post so that we wouldn’t be dragged off topic but it was intriguing enough that I wanted to have an actual conversation about it.So my question is, why is this such a polarizing topic to individuals, why is it that some people hate the old mandalorians under travis, why do people love them, what are peoples opinions on the new canon, and is there any way we can reconcile these issues?im looking forward to hearing everyone’s opinions on the subject and hope this doesn’t blow up in my face lol. Why is it that some people hate the old mandalorians under travisVarious reasons, but disliking her writing and characterization is one of them. An accusation levels is she extols the Mandalorian culture and individuals at the expense of others, primarily the Jedi, making them weak, inadequate, or totally misrepresenting individuals to further the rhetoric.
Another accusation is her fixation on them at the expense of other concurrent storylines, trying to further subplots featuring the Mandos where it is unnecessary.And I believe it was her books that killed Mara Jade and Gilad Pellaeon, two popular characters, which definitely didn't win over those fans. Why do people love themThere are still a lot of people who hold the same opinions that Traviss did: Boba Fett was awesome, the Mandalorians are awesome, and the Jedi are doodoo heads. That's an oversimplification, but birds of a feather, and all that.I consider myself a fan of the Mandalorians, but that's as featured in Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords, which I believe predated Traviss' involvement in writing by a little bit (at least the first game). Canderous Ordo was cool, and presented an interesting picture into the culture, but didn't steal the spotlight or overdo it. They were just another aspect of the Star Wars galaxy. What are peoples opinions on the new canonTrick question: opinions on new canon as a whole, or new canon 's depiction of Mandalorians?
I'm guessing the latterThe revision started in The Clone Wars, which still billed as being the EU before the buyout. I don't think they intended to really retcon as much as they did, they just simplified for ease of viewing.
I generally prefer the more diversified depiction in TCW. The Acquisition and discontinuation of the EU has caused more problems then people like to think about (like General Grievous and Asajj Ventress not having backstories). Well, my opinion is easy enough to quantify.I haven't ready many of the books (because the quality started going down hill fast, so I only read selected writings if they're highly recommended) so I don't have too much to hang my opinion about the Mando's on.HOWEVER, we have 2-3 Mando PC's and they're all played like backstabbing dishonest homicidal psychopaths, so my opinion is decidedly trending toward the negative end of the spectrum.Then they're definitely playing Mandos wrong, either that or as members of Deathwatch.
Mandalorians had a very strict sense of honor. Blackbird actually said it better than I could.But I'll offer my $2 too.I think a lot of people liked the idea of a 'Proud Warrior Race' that weren't easily pigeonholed as heroes or villains, good nor evil, and might be antagonists or protagonists as the situation warranted. Karen Traviss clearly did a lot of work on building their culture, and some liked the nod to same-gender relationships in a genre that is starved of representation for LBGT people.Her detractors feel she went too far - that they came across as Games Workshop's Space Marines, having to be more awesome and badass than everyone else and becoming 'author's pets'. (Of course, some feel the Jedi had been the canon Mary Sue's since Star Wars began, and were happy to see someone else given a chance to be badass. In a setting where everyone who is anybody has Force powers, the Mandalorians felt like a breath of fresh air to many).I think she'd have done better dialling it back from 11.
I liked them in the Knights of the Old Republic games because they weren't always perfect and they made mistakes. Canderous Ordo gets absolutely owned by Carth of all people in one iconic conversation between the pair, and the 'tough guy' slinks off, humiliated, with his tail between his legs. Little things that that can humanise them, make it clear that they're not flawless or perfect.When we redid them for our game, the player mostly went with the Traviss concepts, tweaked and amended to fit our setting. They ended up being a Proud Warrior Race Guy species that punched well above their weight and almost conquered the galaxy at a time when the Old Republic was at its strongest. With the campaign beginning its last arc, it's very possible they will finally get what they've always dreamed of - Mandalorian boots on Coruscant soil, honoured warriors in the vanguard of the force that conquers humanity's birthplace.
(We had the Taung as a kind of krogan-like species, genetically-evolved from reptiles native to Coruscant. So the Mandalorians finally achieving their dream ultimately honours their long-dead creators too - genetically-modified humans returning to humanity's cradle, having been created for that task by a species that was itself genetically-modified from lesser life-forms by early humans. There's a certain symmetry in that which appeals.)Interesting topic anyway.
There are probably few Star Wars elements that are more controversial. Midichlorians, maybe?
If your midichorian count is below a certain amount; then your out of count. XD Though from a scientific perspective; I would actually be really disappointed if the Jedi hadn't tried to quantify force senstivity in some regard at some point or other. I mean the statement itself was made in a throwaway statement (This kid's midichorlian count is exceedingly high!
His connection to the force should exceed our greatest masters e.c.t) thus it is never stated whether midichorlians are directly linked to force sensitivity (e.g. Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his Midichorlian count?!); or merely gather in association (in the same way that it's really difficult to measure dark matter or certain drug compounds, thus usually you would find something else to measure that is associated to it.).As a scientist, it would likely be a factor of the latter; Midichorlians gather in response to sensitivity and thus while it is certainly a indicator of force sensitivity; it is unlikely to be a measure of power unless an significant difference is detected.
Even then; potential doesn't matter without training; Annie was clearly capable of a lot of things an adult wasn't; he won a pod race with a damaged racer and flew in starfighter combat, but it took a life time of training to turn that potential into the tangible ability to break a mans neck. Hence I can gleefully bring up the force gobbling molecules around my table and watch the hardcore nerds crumble in sheer despair!
GAHAHAHAHAHAH.Ahem.What I find more silly is this entire 'Chosen one' Prophecy that is mentioned but never explored; bring balance to the force? Isn't the sith meant to be dead? It's clearly a ham fisted attempt to foreshadow his importance rather then just saying 'alright this kid has serious potential, he's done some proper bonkers things, we should at least give him a chance. Besides, Heroin is really difficult to detect within the body, Di-Morphine has a half life of a few minutes and is fairly impotent by itself; it's true asset is to breach the blood brain extremely rapidly to admister morphine directly inside the brain! Thus having heroin in your bloodstream is an incredible scientific achievement! Even if that achievement would likely have drastic consequences on long term health.As for mandolorians; in all honesty I don't know enough of them to make a informed decision either way.
I roleplay a character who is typically underhanded in direct struggles; always planning 5 steps ahead on the board compared to the honourable Mando who insisted on settling things directly with no tricks. It isn't really an aspect of the lore I have much experience with and when my character attempted to impersonate said dead character (to try and settle things with his clan, like he would have wanted to) nor I or my character could really get that idelogy down to a T. Most others would be much more educated in that. Maelora pretty much got my dislike of Traviss’ Mandos right.It’s one thing for an author to carve out a niche within a licensed property - Diane Duane did it in Trek, and Stackpole and Allston did it in Star Wars, for example. But something about Traviss’ contributions seemed to be (also as Maelora borrowed from the Spinal Tap gentlemen) dialed up to 11.
I love the KOTOR take on the Mandalorians. They're a warrior culture and consider themselves honourable in that they treat those they deem worthy of repect with respect. The kicker is, since they're a warrior culture, what they respect is martial strength.
If you are weak, you deserve no respect and get none. And if you are strong enough, you will be respected to the point that the mandalorians will stand in line to have a shot at invading your planet and killing you. Because what can be more honourable and glorious than fighting mandalorians?Then Traviss comes along and holds these people up as morally superior to the Jedi, who at least aspired to peace and selflessness.And they have super secret space fighters made by super secret metal cranked out by the village blacksmith or something, but I digress.I liked the old (pre-Traviss) mandlorians because they were overly proud, violent jackholes. Glossing over their jackholeness made them outright boring and less beleivable. I was delighted by the take TCW had on them, having moved on from their violent past (most likely not to wipe themselves out in constant wars) with the old culture being kept alive by reactionary holdouts like the deathwatch.
Mandalorian Jedi
Also it seemed more than a little like harsh commentary on the glorification of warmongers I feel Traviss dabbled in.I found the comment about mandalorians who werent honorable must be deathwatch hilarious, because the deathwatch were honourable as rhymes-with-duck. The problem is, as old school mandalorians, they respected martial strength.
Pacifists like Satine were beneath contempt. When Maul proved himself stronger, they eagerly fell in line behind him.It might just be me reading too much into things, but it doesn't seem to far fetched to see some commentary on things like toxic masculinity (even if the mandos themselves are fairly equal opportunity these days) and fascism that glorify strength and war.Rebels has backpedalled a bit on this but I'll have to adress that later after rewatching a few episodes to refresh my memory, and this post is already to long for something I typed on my phone in bed rather than going to sleep.Edited October 24, 2017 by penpenpen. I've recently taken the GM reins of a game taking place in the Rebels era, and I think the original GM and our Mando PC have done something that leaves a lot of wiggle room, and fits what I've seen of Canon: The Mandolorian culture is at a low point, and is having something of an identity crisis. Our Mando PC has family issues over KOTOR-era tradition versus adaptation, with him worried the culture's going to die out if they don't find nobler reasons to fight, and thus earn the respect of the galactic community.
It's lead to an interesting friendship with my Bothan mostly-pacifist, who's got similar issues with his overly manipulative clan. Why is it that some people hate the old mandalorians under travis, why do people love themBecause Traviss is a crap writer.
She tends to view issues in black and white and will derail characterization to push that view. Her Halo books are perfect proof of that. In the Fall of Reach Dr. Halsey is a mother figure to the SPARTANs, can tell who's who just by body language, cares enough about them to refer to them by name, and continually justifies what she did to them to herself (indicating regret). In Traviss' books Dr. Halsey shows no regrets about kidnapping them as children or replacing them with rapidly grown clones that would die in a few years. Worse, she treats them as tools and neglects them so badly they turn on her.Yet despite all that, Traviss had some good ideas.
The language, focus on family, and equality of all in the culture regardless of sex and species, for example, were all good expansions on the crusading culture from the KotOR series. The codes that defined their honor were a bit hit-or-miss, but also led to a morally grey group that could be heroes or villains; something the other groups like the Jedi or Sith can't aspire to be without compromising their codes. What are peoples opinions on the new canon, and is there any way we can reconcile these issues?Personally I hated the TCW spin on them as it seemed the writers just took an existing EU name for their original creation (seriously, the culture accepting of warriors regardless of species were all blonde, white humans?!) as well as the fact the pacificists were always in the right while the warriors were just terrorists.
However, with the late TCW additions (showing corruption in the New Mandalorians/a code of honor in Death Watch) and the addition of less extreme warrior clans in Rebels, I've warmed to the canon Mandalorians. Only thing I still dislike is the fact the culture who dislikes Jedi follow a leader partially because they wield a Jedi weapon.Easiest way is to follow in the footsteps of Rebels: while Death Watch and the New Mandalorians duked it out for control of Mandalore,other warrior clans set up shop on other worlds in Mando space.Edited October 24, 2017 by Ireul. Various reasons, but disliking her writing and characterization is one of them. An accusation levels is she extols the Mandalorian culture and individuals at the expense of others, primarily the Jedi, making them weak, inadequate, or totally misrepresenting individuals to further the rhetoric. Another accusation is her fixation on them at the expense of other concurrent storylines, trying to further subplots featuring the Mandos where it is unnecessary.this is an opinion i keep seeing people repeat, that travis's depiction of the mandalorians neutered the jedi, so is this a case of legitimate depowering of jedi in favor of mandalorians, is it people getting upset that the development of a non-jedi group prevented jedi from being an all powerful ubermensch that they were imagined to be, or is it a combination of both? I consider myself a fan of the Mandalorians, but that's as featured in Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords, which I believe predated Traviss' involvement in writing by a little bit (at least the first game). Canderous Ordo was cool, and presented an interesting picture into the culture, but didn't steal the spotlight or overdo it.
They were just another aspect of the Star Wars galaxy.i also loved the kotor mandalorians, but since i could never afford an xbox or a computer to play them on until years after they came out, so i didn't actually encounter them until after i was familiar with karen's version of the mandalorians, which honestly likely colors my opinion on the matter, but i never saw an issue with the mandalorians being some what different 3000 years before, i honestly would have been more surprised had they been exactly the same. The revision started in The Clone Wars, which still billed as being the EU before the buyout. I don't think they intended to really retcon as much as they did, they just simplified for ease of viewing.
I generally prefer the more diversified depiction in TCW. The Acquisition and discontinuation of the EU has caused more problems then people like to think about (like General Grievous and Asajj Ventress not having backstories).The galaxy is a big place, and there are far-flung groups that still held the traditions, but were separated from the politics of the New Mandalorian/Death Watch conflict. Simple enough for me.
But I generally don't play in canon settings, so.thats very reasonable, and honestly i think having remnant pockets is very interesting. I think a lot of people liked the idea of a 'Proud Warrior Race' that weren't easily pigeonholed as heroes or villains, good nor evil, and might be antagonists or protagonists as the situation warranted. Karen Traviss clearly did a lot of work on building their culture, and some liked the nod to same-gender relationships in a genre that is starved of representation for LBGT people.Her detractors feel she went too far - that they came across as Games Workshop's Space Marines, having to be more awesome and badass than everyone else and becoming 'author's pets'. (Of course, some feel the Jedi had been the canon Mary Sue's since Star Wars began, and were happy to see someone else given a chance to be badass. In a setting where everyone who is anybody has Force powers, the Mandalorians felt like a breath of fresh air to many).I think she'd have done better dialling it back from 11. I liked them in the Knights of the Old Republic games because they weren't always perfect and they made mistakes.
Canderous Ordo gets absolutely owned by Carth of all people in one iconic conversation between the pair, and the 'tough guy' slinks off, humiliated, with his tail between his legs. When we redid them for our game, the player mostly went with the Traviss concepts, tweaked and amended to fit our setting. They ended up being a Proud Warrior Race Guy species that punched well above their weight and almost conquered the galaxy at a time when the Old Republic was at its strongest. With the campaign beginning its last arc, it's very possible they will finally get what they've always dreamed of - Mandalorian boots on Coruscant soil, honoured warriors in the vanguard of the force that conquers humanity's birthplace. (We had the Taung as a kind of krogan-like species, genetically-evolved from reptiles native to Coruscant. So the Mandalorians finally achieving their dream ultimately honours their long-dead creators too - genetically-modified humans returning to humanity's cradle, having been created for that task by a species that was itself genetically-modified from lesser life-forms by early humans. There's a certain symmetry in that which appeals.)Interesting topic anyway.
There are probably few Star Wars elements that are more controversial. Midichlorians, maybe?What kind of amuses me is that - mechanically in the FFG game - they are slightly weaker than baseline humans in raw stats (this suited our interpretation of them as a species deliberately created for hyper-specialisation)So someone wanting to play one takes a small hit to their starting stats for the privilege of being a 'Mandalorian human' over a baseline one.honestly love the way you reimagined them, after reading what you wrote about it in the other thread i know that i'm going to use elements of this when i present it to my players. Maelora pretty much got my dislike of Traviss’ Mandos right.It’s one thing for an author to carve out a niche within a licensed property - Diane Duane did it in Trek, and Stackpole and Allston did it in Star Wars, for example. But something about Traviss’ contributions seemed to be (also as Maelora borrowed from the Spinal Tap gentlemen) dialed up to 11. Additionally, as I understand the story goes, she wasn’t terribly interested in writing for Star Wars, nor in working well with others. Whether true or not, I can’t say, but it certainly seemed that way.
By way of example, the Legacy of the Force series installments by other authors would weave together all the various threads of the storyline.then her entries would bring the proceedings to a screeching halt for me, by focusing solely on the Mandalorian thread. Her books seemed to be at least a half-step outside the SW universe.TL:DR (too late) something about her work and approach just rubbed me the wrong way. I love the KOTOR take on the Mandalorians. They're a warrior culture and consider themselves honourable in that they treat those they deem worthy of repect with respect. The kicker is, since they're a warrior culture, what they respect is martial strength. If you are weak, you deserve no respect and get none.
And if you are strong enough, you will be respected to the point that the mandalorians will stand in line to have a shot at invading your planet and killing you. Because what can be more honourable and glorious than fighting mandalorians?Then Traviss comes along and holds these people up as morally superior to the Jedi, who at least aspired to peace and selflessness.And they have super secret space fighters made by super secret metal cranked out by the village blacksmith or something, but I digress.I liked the old (pre-Traviss) mandalorians because they were overly proud, violent jackholes. Glossing over their jackholeness made them outright boring and less believable. I was delighted by the take TCW had on them, having moved on from their violent past (most likely not to wipe themselves out in constant wars) with the old culture being kept alive by reactionary holdouts like the deathwatch.
Also it seemed more than a little like harsh commentary on the glorification of warmongers I feel Traviss dabbled in.as i said before i also love KOTOR mandalorians, they were extremely interesting and compelling for what they were, but what they were was substantially limited, imo. I found the comment about mandalorians who weren't honorable must be deathwatch hilarious, because the deathwatch were honourable as rhymes-with-duck.
Star Wars Rise Of The Mandalorians
The problem is, as old school mandalorians, they respected martial strength. Pacifists like Satine were beneath contempt.
I've recently taken the GM reins of a game taking place in the Rebels era, and I think the original GM and our Mando PC have done something that leaves a lot of wiggle room, and fits what I've seen of Canon: The Mandolorian culture is at a low point, and is having something of an identity crisis. Our Mando PC has family issues over KOTOR-era tradition versus adaptation, with him worried the culture's going to die out if they don't find nobler reasons to fight, and thus earn the respect of the galactic community. It's lead to an interesting friendship with my Bothan mostly-pacifist, who's got similar issues with his overly manipulative clan.i like this concept of them and the scenarios it can present, i especially enjoy that your mando pc has found a way to make the backstory work for his character to make them a unique character.ive really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread, i think i have a really good idea over what the controversy of this is over, and its helped me develop my understanding of them as well. In Traviss' books Dr. Halsey shows no regrets about kidnapping them as children or replacing them with rapidly grown clones that would die in a few years.
Worse, she treats them as tools and neglects them so badly they turn on her.hmm i recall this, it was a very disappointing change in the relationship that i enjoyed from the first book, im starting to realize the fact that i might have attributed a greater level of ability to travis because of the work she had done on developing the world building concepts of mandalore. Yet despite all that, Traviss had some good ideas. The language, focus on family, and equality of all in the culture regardless of sex and species, for example, were all good expansions on the crusading culture from the KotOR series. The codes that defined their honor were a bit hit-or-miss, but also led to a morally grey group that could be heroes or villains; something the other groups like the Jedi or Sith can't aspire to be without compromising their codes.yes exactly, i think we can value her world building while still recognizing the flaws with her writing. As well as the fact the pacificists were always in the right while the warriors were just terrorists.
However, with the late TCW additions (showing corruption in the New Mandalorians/a code of honor in Death Watch) and the addition of less extreme warrior clans in Rebels, I've warmed to the canon Mandalorians. This is an opinion i keep seeing people repeat, that travis's depiction of the mandalorians neutered the jedi, so is this a case of legitimate depowering of jedi in favor of mandalorians, is it people getting upset that the development of a non-jedi group prevented jedi from being an all powerful ubermensch that they were imagined to be, or is it a combination of both?She has a clone teach a Jedi Padawan how to better use a lightsaber in combat. Even tough a Padawan would have been training since she was a small kid (as per Attack of the Clones). So is this a case of legitimate depowering of jedi in favor of mandalorians, is it people getting upset that the development of a non-jedi group prevented jedi from being an all powerful ubermensch that they were imagined to be, or is it a combination of both?Mostly this is a case of just terrible writing, a author pushing their agenda ('Mandalorians are awesome! Jedi are stupidheads!' ) at the expense of the story and otherwise not playing well with others.
I unfortunately wasted a couple of days reading the series of books where Jacen solo turned to the dark side, and every time one of her books showed up in rotation, it was wildly inconsistent in tone with the rest of the series. She clearly had some kind of beef and it shone through in her writing.She was one of the key reasons I rejoiced that Disney dumped all the standing continuity in favor of their rebooted one.Edited October 24, 2017 by Desslok. Nah, I think we all came to an agreement on that subject a while back: Midichlorians is just another word Heroin, at-least that's what Auralnauts told us.Yes, we all know that.
But what we need to know is:Will Duke Dirtfarmer give in to midichlorians?Who is the Last Laser Master?What will happen to the frozen Han Singular?Where is Ackbar’s mocha frap with extra hwhip?How will Creepio react to being considered a god?Will Mr. Palpatine get maximum profit margins?Is Laser Moon going to return?How will the confrontation go between Duke and his actual father, Steve Obi-Wan Ben Larry Kenobi?